Card Value vs Card Rarity

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Bell
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Card Value vs Card Rarity

Post by Bell »

If we were to make a 'Trading and Collecting' system of cards within KP, what would actually work?

Using the game's base rarities doesn't work, those apply over time in a different way.

Could we as a community come to fair decisions on new rarities? What about Promos?

What would we do about people who make multiple accounts to 'farm' cards?

Would it really be better to have a system of 'earning' cards? Or a 'Dealer' that tosses you a set number of free cards daily when you log in and you hope there's something good in it?

Would we want that Dealer to deal completely randomly? Or have the player be able to restrict it by some quality? (Set, Race, Civ, Creature, Spell, Gear?)

Would we want to enforce any type of restriction on total 'value' of a deck? Or on trades? Certainly it would affect if you could 'give away' good cards your friends want, to them, if there was restricted value trading.

What would we do for those players who are just unlucky and keep getting crap deals?

Would there be any precedent to having rewards for tournaments in this way?

If we did have a card 'earning' system, would there then be some sort of 'game currency' for card shopping?

I personally have opinions on all these issues already, but I build games for semi-obsessive nerds. Getting the opinion of more normal people (do we have any of those?) seems like a good idea to me.

Discuss.
In chats wrote:<Wedjat> Why is there no function for converting "antagonizing fools" into "delightful servants"?
<ri> you don't have access to defool.exe?
<Wedjat> It would be an illegal operation.
<Bell> SIGGED
<Wedjat> \o/
mighty
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Re: Card Value vs Card Rarity

Post by mighty »

Tell u what

When two people play, The winner can take 5 of the cards that opponent used.
What about it???

And yes, We cud have points like we have in ladder
Setr different values for different cards.

For example, Tulk costs 1 point.
To have it , one can use one of his points
as such cards can be assigned values
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cap'n
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Re: Card Value vs Card Rarity

Post by cap'n »

I like having a system with a 'game currency' in which you can buy 'packs' of random cards (or random but certain civ types) and allows you to start off.

Then we can have a trading system that is fairly unrestricted and allowing players to trade cards they dont need for ones that would help build their main deck 'aim'.

Restricted trades could be based on rarity which would have to be re-established.

Winning tournaments could give you a choice of 3-5 cards. Or that could be where the 'Dealer' comes in to give you a set of more 'focused' cards to your main deck aim(Add: kinda unfair)

Add:

I realized there would be no way to receive 'game currency' or none that i mentioned.
I think starting points could be given when someone joins. More points can be added for winning certain tournaments or there could be a ladder that gives 'game currency' as prizes.
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Zystral
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Re: Card Value vs Card Rarity

Post by Zystral »

As someone who plays Pokemon TCG and MTG competitively in real life, I can confidently say the amount of money I've spent on cards over my lifetime is likely enough to buy a car with.

Pokemon TCG Online has it, as does MTG Online; you buy packs (in terms of KP, we could have a different mechanism for that), and you are dealt exactly what you would be dealt if you were to pop down to Wal-Mart and buy a pack there. Rarities are set, and card distributions are random. And then, if you want specific cards, you can either trade with other people, or in the case of MTG, buy separate cards through an in-game vendor (which overcharges, by far). And then that's where the case of "Utility vs Rarity" happens; Craze Valkyrie, the Drastic is more likely to be more expensive to buy separately than say, Rimuel, Cloudbreak Elemental.

Unfortunately, you've said that using base rarities don't work, for some reason or other, and community generated rarities I think could be problematic, especially if we place rarities based on their competitive merit; it would reach the point where people would have trouble building competitive decks as they'd no longer have at least 2 of the right card, even staples such as Soulswap. As for Promo cards, that depends on the type of promo. If it's something given out at an event simply for being there, most likely worthless. If it's something given out to winners, then probably more. That's simple enough.

For the topic of "Value Restrictions", I'll make another comparison to MTG. In the current format, any deck that wants to be competitive runs 4 Jace, The Mind Sculptor. He's $80. Each. That alone is worth more than the top level Pokemon/YGO/(fairly sure) DM deck. Limiting values on decks puts a serious restriction on some decks in terms of what they can do, especially Dragon-aggros, as they not only have to claw together dragons, but support, evolutions (perhaps), etc.. I don't like the idea of deck limitations, unless it's restriction of a card to balance the meta.
Limiting values on trades? I don't see a problem with that. What's wrong with giving away good cards? You're not using them, someone else will. They're fortunate enough to be friends.

A similar point can be made about people who pull bad packs. Believe me, I've gotten my fair share of junk as well. "Tough shit."

If a system was implemented whereby playing in matches earnt you in-game "credits" with which to buy packs/single cards, I would rather buy packs that matched real life; random distributions of everything, counting civilization, card type, cost, etc., separated only by set (as that's how they're sold). I wouldn't mind something such as a "Premium" pack, which is a more expensive pack, containing less cards, but inside having more overall value.

Rewards for tournament play is something I dislike as whole, as it imbalances the game; it makes good players even better and doesn't allow poor players to improve bar strategy-wise.

I'm fairly sure there's some law saying that since KP isn't official you can't ask for actual money, so the only way to gain cards from nothing would be like in the games. Either you start with one precon, and work your way to glory, or you have a set amount of credits with which to buy certain cards and build a deck with, before clawing up to the top. Playing in games (not even winning) should earn you store credits, where you can either pay some money for luck with a pack, so pay more to buy certain cards you want. Generally, rares should cost the same as buying a whole pack, and things can be scaled from there, obviously with supply/demand and utility of the card having an effect.

Turning KP into an online TCG/CCG is all fine and well, I'd be okay with it, but everyone finds flaws in the system somehow, and I'm worried that some methods of implementation are more susceptible to abuse than others.


One point I didn't come onto is the multiple account card farming. There's nothing you can do except monitor trades/battles to see if two names come up a lot.

edit:
When two people play, The winner can take 5 of the cards that opponent used.
What about it???
This is a terrible, horrible, disgusting, fetid idea. As if it wasn't bad enough that a rookie was crushed 5-0 by Nerafim, he now loses that Warlord Ailzonius he spent ages trying to get?
mighty
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Re: Card Value vs Card Rarity

Post by mighty »

ok the winner can use 2 of the opps cards, the loser may also use them, Better?

And creating new rarities wud be a problem, so its better to use game rarities there.....
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Burner
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Re: Card Value vs Card Rarity

Post by Burner »

I love a Marketplace idea.

No need to take cards from other people unless its a certain DUEL TYPE, which I wouldn't take part in.

I would love this, personally.
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Micky
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Re: Card Value vs Card Rarity

Post by Micky »

Interesting how different your ideas are from mine...

I was thinking more towards having an almost endless storyline mode, nothing to difficult at first, no negative effect of losing duels, adding new challenges now and then, having some that can be repeated.

Ever since I have started Online DM especially KP, I have always felt that as far as the actual game goes Online is almost always going to be a better test of skills then Real life TCG, so having too much importance for direct competition in an Online-TCG doesn't sit right with me. I guess the term "Fanfic Game/Mode" could be used for it, Of course there would be a way to interact with other players, but very indirect (comparing Kaijudo Level).
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Relinquished
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Re: Card Value vs Card Rarity

Post by Relinquished »

Similiar system with Kaijudo Masters game, in which you can ''buy'' cards as packs and full decks, or simply trade them with others. I mean, for example player gets 100 points in the beginning, a set of random cards from certain set costs 5 points, and a full deck of 40 cards costs 20 points or anything like that. That would be cool, but the present system is good too.
Last edited by Relinquished on Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mighty
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Re: Card Value vs Card Rarity

Post by mighty »

Shadow of the Code

That system can do..
Actually i learnt to play from that game......
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Re: Card Value vs Card Rarity

Post by the_prince_of_light »

I do like the daily free booster pack thing, and tournament reward booster packs. Also, you could give away boost depending on number of completed duels on the account or account rank. For the trading thing, i think there should be strict restriction on the "value" of the cards being traded on each side (the value being a number depending on card rarity). The total sum of the individual values of each card must match on both sides of the trade for the trade to be possible. This can solve the card farming problem at least. Also, make that the sum of individual values of each card in every booster is constant. This means nobody gets unlucky with his packs. A true socialist economy.
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